Episode 32 - Viticulture

In this episode we are making and selling "Grown Up" grape juice, aka wine! We're discussing Viticulture; an amazing Stonemaier Game about making and selling wines. We also would like to announce our newest giveaway!! Listen to this episode to find out how you can win your very own copy of Viticulture! This week we also find out who's Mama and Papa set them up for success!

Game Info:
1-6 Players
45-90 Minute Playtime
Ages 13+

Board Game Geek Entry

Social Media:
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
Twitch

Transcript

Rachel: 0:13

Hello and welcome. I'm Rachel.

Jake: 0:16

I'm Jake,

Rachel: 0:17

and we're so bored. The Podcast where each episode we take a close look at a tabletop game and discuss our personal experiences with said game to help answer the question. Will this cure our boredom?

Jake: 0:30

That's right, we look at the mechanics complexity and replayability in a game to determine if it's the perfect alternative to well, let's say attempting to mow that neglected backyard of yours in the ever increasing eat only to discover that both of your electric lawnmower batteries are lasting between six and eight minutes before dying. And they each take an hour and a half to charge.

Rachel: 0:51

Yeah, that's real. Except we don't have two batteries. We only have one.

Jake: 0:57

Well, we do have two but one of them's is completely dead. Oh, okay.

Rachel: 1:03

We bought a new lawnmower reasonably well. All right. So before we get started today, we are streaming board games on the snowboard podcast Twitch channel. So we did our first like official stream of recently with route last week we did arc Nova. And tomorrow we're doing viniculture. Yes. So come check us out. twitch.tv/snowboard podcast.

Jake: 1:30

And speaking of streaming, I'm also streaming on Twitch semi regularly. Not so much board games on my channel. It's mostly video games. We've been doing some bow hype some spooky scary games like devour or Phasma phobia. It's a lot of fun. Come check me out. We have a lot of fun with it. Rachel and I also play Val home together on there occasionally. So it's good time. You can find me at Naughty Dog 541 That's NAU gh t. Why do C 541 comm check it out. Schedule is updated weekly.

Rachel: 2:04

All right. And now it's time for the big announcement. It's giveaway. Now it's time for another giveaway. We are giving away the game from this episode viniculture pewpewpew.

Jake: 2:22

If you don't have a copy of it really honestly, you should get one.

Rachel: 2:27

This is a pretty great game. Yeah, yeah, I know this game. I'm really good at it apparently.

Jake: 2:33

We'll talk about that later. I have things to say.

Rachel: 2:36

But anyway, go check out our Facebook page, there will be a link to a gleam giveaway with multiple ways to enter including something secret from this episode. So make sure you're listening and paying attention. And that will be open for 30 or 31 days. So you've got a whole month to go and get all that figured out. And yeah, good luck to everybody.

Jake: 2:59

Nothing will be a paid entry. So everything you can do for free. So we want to encourage as many people as possible to enter as many times as possible to get the highest chance to get that game. Yeah.

Rachel: 3:10

And also, it's basically worldwide. The only limitation I put on that is like if there's a shipping restriction from the US to your country, it's probably not going to work. Like I don't think I can ship to Russia. So right now I don't think we can. That's, you know, unfortunate, and I'm sorry for that. But it's basically worldwide. So yeah, go ahead.

Jake: 3:32

If I could fix that. I would but can't sorry. Nobody listens to me.

Rachel: 3:37

So anyway, we're talking about viticulture. Yes. Bitter culture

Jake: 3:40

was originally released in 2013 by stone stone Meyer games. I don't know is it still Meyer Stonemaier?

Rachel: 3:47

I think I pronounced it stone Meyer.

Jake: 3:49

That's how I do it. But we're gonna have to ask somebody on our next episode, how it's actually pronounced wink wink. Yes, nudge. It was designed by Jamey Stegmaier with the art by Jackie Davis, David Montgomery and Beth Sobel, this is a really popular game, you know, this game is almost 10 years old. It's number 27 on board game geeks overall game rank. That being said, there are two versions of this game that are on board game geeks, there's the original version, and then there are the essential editions. For this episode, when we're referring to this game, we are going to be referring to the essential edition of both the core game and the applicable expansions. So the essential addition of this game was actually released in 2016. But from what I understand, it's pretty much the same game with some changes to it. Probably some little improvements. Yeah, some some quality of life improvements. So as I said, we are going to be referring to the essential edition of this game. That's what we have. That's what we've played. The original is no longer in print.

Rachel: 4:50

Yeah, that's the main reason why that's what we're referring to. You can't even get the other one anymore. So well.

Jake: 4:56

I'm sure you could, but you'd have to pay a crown like money on eBay. Hey, yeah, unlike

Rachel: 5:00

eBay, so So what is viticulture? This is a game where you are trying to make the most successful vineyard.

Jake: 5:09

Finally, a game about booze

Rachel: 5:13

by gaining the most reputation, aka victory points, so I started writing down what the like board looks like and going into all the worker placement slots, and then that essentially just covered what the entire game is. So right at the very top of the board, we have a couple of different like slots for card decks and their discard piles. So we have green cards, which are various types of vines, these are different varieties with either white and or red grapes valuing between one and four, and that the value of the grapes will come into play more later, we'll get back to that. Next to that you've got the summer visitor cards, which are yellow. These provides special bonuses and effects. We'll provide some examples in a bit when we get there, that's that you've got the purple orders cards. These are like the things that people are ordering from your vineyard, the types of wines that they want and things that you need to go fulfill for them. And then lastly, you have the blue winter visitors cards, which are very similar to the yellow summer visitors cards. They also provide you with like special bonuses and effects, just different types of things because there's different, like actions that you take in summer versus winter.

Jake: 6:34

Yes, those visitors are awesome, because pretty much each one has its own unique effect. I think there might be some reprints in there. But there's a large variety of different abilities that you can use these for.

Rachel: 6:47

Even ones that like seem like they're the same thing, like they're both called the architect or something, have slightly different effects on them, which makes it exciting to get new cards and see what they do for you.

Jake: 7:01

So the worker placement slots, this is a worker placement game, the worker placement slots are split into summer and winter slots. So we're gonna go through these. First, you have the ability to play a summer visitor card with a worker placement slot. And we kind of talked about what those were a little bit already. And one of the examples is you can lose three victory points to gain nine lira, I'm going to call it gold, I'm sorry, I will at some point call it gold. That's I will.

Rachel: 7:28

It's the currency of the game, it's gold.

Jake: 7:31

And another example is everyone could play divine and you gain lira. If an opponent does this, or you can construct a building with a discount depending on what card is changes the discount. The next worker placement slot is to draw a vine card. This will allow you to get one of those grape cards that you'll eventually be able to plant into your field. You can sell grapes or sell one of your fields actually as a worker as another slot. The grapes are from your crush pad and not your vines themselves. So you have to actually harvest them prior to selling them, which is done on different worker places slot. And in order to sell your field you will get either five six or seven gold depending on the field you sell and that field does have to be empty. The next worker placement is you can give a tour of your vineyard. This will get you to Lyra the next worker placement is to plant you will be planting a vine card from your hand into one of your fields. The total value of the grapes on the vine cards cannot exceed the value or cost of your field. The value and cost of the same you have a five slot field is six slot field and a seven slot field. Those slots also correspond to their gold value on the sell a field worker placement slot. So the example that we have here is the Sangiovese see is worth one red grape value. The Pino is worth one red and one white grape valued at one each. And the Chardonnay, it's a white grape worth four and you get to pick whatever field you want to put it in as long as it meets the requirement of having enough open slots for that grape. Yeah, the next worker placement slot. I'm gonna go through all these a little bit fast because there's a lot here and we'll talk about it a little bit later. The last exclusively summer worker placement slot is to build a structure you have eight different structures you can build, you can build a trellis which is required to plant some vine types. You can build an irrigation tower which is also required to build some vine types. You can build a yoke which allows you to take the upper vine in summer or harvest field in winter action. So this is another worker placement slot that you will unlock on your personal board. uprooting allows you to take your previously planted grapes from a field and put it back into your hand. The windmill is a buildable structure it grants a victory point whenever you plant the vine with a limit of one per year. The cottage allows you to draw an extra summer or winter visitor card in fall. which takes place between summer and winter worker plays? Well, you know, to be fair, there's not a fall season in the game you don't take any actions during Fall or Spring other than pick up these cards or decide where you're gonna go in the the turn track.

Rachel: 10:17

Yeah, so I mean, we'll get into this a little later with the expansions. But I have received many comments on how the base game is so weird without one of the expansions because there's only two seasons and there's

Jake: 10:30

not there's four. Unless you live here in Arizona, then there really is only two. Hot and hotter,

Rachel: 10:38

I would say nice and the surface of the sun.

Jake: 10:41

Yes. So the tasting room was the next buildable structure. This graduated victory point when giving it to her if you have wine in your cellar also limits you to once per year. The medium cellar allows you to make blush wines, which is a combination of red and white and have wines up to a value of six. So the wines will also age and become more valuable as you keep them. The large cellar allows you to make sparkling wines, which is two reds and a white, and will also allow you to age your wines to a value of nine. Those are the summer worker placement slots,

Rachel: 11:16

okay, so you have fall very briefly in between summer and winter, where what just drawing a card, but either a summer or winter visitor card, and then it immediately goes into winter. In winter, you can play a winter visitor card. So these are similar to the summer ones, they have those special benefits. A couple of examples are you gives you an option, draw to order cards or pay three lira to train a worker which is at a discount of what the normal worker placement slot is to train a worker. And you can actually do both, if you choose to lose a victory point, which I love that they give you that option. Other examples are take the top card from two different discard piles. So that could get you a vine or an order or whatever. And then another example is choose to harvest one field make up to two wines or fill one order. And so this is a really nice one because it basically is allowing you to complete two actions, something that would normally take two separate workers to go and do. So you're only doing it with one that's nice, but also, it's not actually requiring you to place it in those slots. So worker placement slots are limited. And it's a very real problem that like you might not be able to take an action that you want to take because someone else has already taken it. And so this is really nice, it's a different action that you can take to essentially complete two actions worth very cool. All right, other slots for winter, we've got drawn order card, that's the purple card about, you know the one that people want, you can harvest a field. So when you harvest a field, you are going to gain red and or white grapes with the value of the total value of that grape color across all your vines in one field. So if you have, for example, a piano and a Chardonnay in one field, you will gain a one value red grape and a five value white grape because the Chardonnay is a four value. And the Pinot also includes a one value white grape, so you only get the two grapes, but the values add together. And it's actually kind of cool the way that they've designed this. So at the bottom of your personal board, they have a couple of different crush pads with like different values for each red and white, basically one through nine. And then you've got these like clear, kind of half marble tokens. I'm not sure like they're Hmong kala type tokens that are completely clear that you then go and place over the value of the grape on your crush pad. So you can see through it and see what kind of grape it is and what the value is. So that's kind of cool the way that that looks.

Jake: 14:18

Now, before anybody says anything I know I understand. harvesting your grapes in the winter does not make sense. Typically in the northern hemisphere, wine grapes are harvested between August and October in the southern hemisphere, February to April, which is like end of summer, early fall. But I didn't make the game. Look. Don't yell at me about when to harvest your grapes. Okay, that's all I want to say.

Rachel: 14:46

All right, your next worker placement slot option is to make up to two wines. So when you're making wine, you are moving that clear token from your crush pad over to your cellar, where you've got essentially the same kind of thing with like different colored like wine glasses with the different values. And so you start out with a small cellar that can only hold up to value three wines. And they can only hold reds and whites. And then if you've managed to build a medium cellar, you can start making blush wines. And if you get a large cellar, you can start making sparkling wines. And so there are like different recipes for making these various ones. So plain white wine is just one white grape, a plain red wine is just one red, great. If you want to make a blush wine, it's one white and one red. And that a sparkling is one white and two red grapes.

Jake: 15:47

That being said, the blush wine has to equal four, in order to create it, you can have anything under a value of four. Oh, that's true, I didn't even think of as sparkling has to be a level seven or greater. I feel

Rachel: 16:01

like that's an uncommon thing where you might have like a level one red and level one white that you want to then turn into a blush. But that's a really good point that I didn't think of cannot do that. Anyway, kind of expanding on that the value of your blush and your sparkling wines is going to be the total value of your grapes combined. So like Jake was saying, You need to have a level four blush wine, that means a minimum of like, a level two red and a level two white, or like a level three read and a level one white, whatever, you add it together and it totals the number that's the value of your wine. Yes, which you have to have the appropriate size cellar for we already said that. But also you can't have an existing wine of that type like of that color. And that value, you can only have one, there can be only one,

Jake: 16:56

you just can't make a bunch of crappy red wine, like they won't let you do it. Yeah,

Rachel: 17:00

basically, if you make a wine that is the same value of something you already exist, you have to devalue it down to the next available slot for that wine. And well, if you're making a level four blush wine, and you already have a level four blush, wine then Sucks to suck, it doesn't work, you don't make it. Okay, that's everything about making wine who knew that you'd be an expert winemaker at the end of this podcast

Jake: 17:26

me I knew. Anyway,

Rachel: 17:29

other worker placement slots, you could train a worker, and that costs four lira, and that worker becomes available for the next year. And then lastly, you can fill in order. So this is taking one of those purple things and what they're like asking for the different types of wines at different values. You remove those wines from your cellar, and then you will gain a certain number of victory points and residual payments as a result of filling that order. The residual payments are lire that you gain at the end of the year for the rest of the game. So instead of like somebody's just paying you a chunk of cash right now, for all the wine you're giving them, they're saying I'm gonna continue to pay you this forever, I guess, because it's like, small payment installments, I guess in comparison to the value of the wine, I don't know. But that's how that works. So that's winter, we already talked about how the fall season is in between those two, and it's just drawing a card, we also have the spring season at the very beginning of the round, which is essentially just determining the play order that you go in. So everybody's got a little like rooster meeple. And the first player, whoever's the first player token will get to place that somewhere on the order track, getting them various bonus options and determining what order they play in and place their workers in for the rest of the year. All right,

Jake: 19:00

so at the end of the year, all your grapes and wines age. So you move those tokens up to the next appropriate value. For the wine, you must have a cellar that can hold the value that it is moving to. For example, if you have not upgraded your solar at all, and you have a level three red wine, that wine will not age into level four, because you need the medium wine cellar.

Rachel: 19:25

And I think it's a little silly that your grapes also age like apparently you could just leave those on your crush pad and they age and get better. Yes. But yeah,

Jake: 19:36

you return all your workers, you collect residual payments as appropriate for each person. You discard your hand down to seven cards if you need to. You rotate the first player token, you actually in this game rotate widdershins not diesel. What is that? widdershins and diesel watersheds are counterclockwise diesel is clockwise.

Rachel: 20:02

I've never heard this terminology. What is that from?

Jake: 20:05

It's old. It's really old,

Rachel: 20:07

in reference to what we're talking about, like, is it a sailing thing?

Jake: 20:13

Ancient Irish or Gaelic?

Rachel: 20:17

Okay,

Jake: 20:18

so everything goes widdershins not diesel. Okay, then I love that. Don't judge me. The end of the game is triggered once somebody reaches 20 victory points once somebody reaches us 20 victory points you do complete the year. So there is an opportunity for somebody to potentially catch up and actually get more. And then that's the game. That's it. It's pretty simple.

Rachel: 20:40

Yeah, it actually is. Question mark. You were telling me earlier how complex it is.

Jake: 20:48

Okay, it's, it's very easy.

Rachel: 20:52

Okay, sure. Sure, sure. It's pretty

Jake: 20:55

easy. The rules are a little daunting. But I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot, but all of the worker placement sites pretty much say what you need to do.

Rachel: 21:06

Okay, so our experiences, I'm really, really good at this game. I beat Jake. Twice, I guess. Well, we played with

Jake: 21:16

one and a half times one and a half times. Okay.

Rachel: 21:19

We played with my sister and her husband. And that was like, a little over a half a game, because people were getting hungry and kind of wanted to call it quits. So we decided to do one more round, then I happened to be in the lead. So we were

Jake: 21:36

in like year four or five? Yeah.

Rachel: 21:40

I don't know, honestly, I lose track. But then when I played a proper game with just Jake, and I won, and I feel like I don't know, maybe this is like, this is my game, my soul game. It speaks to me and I just get it.

Jake: 21:56

Two things we didn't talk about in our rules. This game has asymmetric starts, you start with both a mama card and a Papa card. And they both dictate what you start with at the beginning of the game, how much money you get, what kind of resources you have available to you what kind of card you start with in your hand. And how many workers you have. Because some mamas grant more workers than others, because some women have more kids than others. I don't know. Okay, that being said, in the game that Rachel and I played together, she started with one of the most expensive buildings available, like just started with it.

Rachel: 22:33

That is true. Yeah, it was a pretty big benefit. So the initial or the original rules of the game, say to just deal out one mom on one Papa randomly to everybody, but I actually think I prefer this variant where you hand out two of each to everybody and let them pick which ones they want to start with. Gives you a little bit more control over kind of the strategy that you want to take in the game. Yeah, so like, the big differences between like various Mamas and Papas cards is the types of cards that you start with. So whether or not you start with orders or fines or visitors, the number of workers it's going to be either two or three.

Jake: 23:14

Yeah, not including the Grande wage worker, which is something we didn't talk about in the rules, which I was going to mention next.

Rachel: 23:21

Oh, that's true. Yes. And then the other big difference with the Papas is whether or not you start with a structure. So in some cases, you will start with more lira. And in other cases, you just start with a structure already built. Yes. And so like Jake was saying, I was kind of lucky with the Papa that I got, I was able to start with a medium cellar in the game that we played, which, I mean, that is a big advantage. That's six lira that you just don't have to spend.

Jake: 23:50

Yeah, it's expensive. So and then me I'm just poor the whole time trying to find money to build my buildings. She's like, I got all this money I don't need. Well, it's funny.

Rachel: 24:04

Okay, so yeah, the other thing that we forgot to talk about was the Grande worker, which this is actually a really cool aspect of the game, in my opinion. So it's literally a meeple that's bigger than the rest. And this meeple allows you to go to a place where the worker placement slots are already filled. That's like its special ability. So you only have one of them. But like, it allows you to do something that you were planning on doing where you might have otherwise not been able to because other people already did it.

Jake: 24:35

This is something I really liked for worker placement game. There's I don't think I've seen anything like that, that allows you to just for every person to just take a slot that already has a worker in it and go there. I know when we were playing doing Imperium, I had a specific leader that allowed me to do it in specific slots, but that's only one person per game. That's not everybody, either. We think that that helps eliminate some of the frustration because this game does get cramped,

Rachel: 25:05

for sure. It's a very real problem. Like it's designed that there's coveted spots. I mean, you know, it's really nice also that they give you the ability to build a yoke on your personal board so that you can at least harvest every year. Yes, you can, you know, do that. But the ability to make wine that's limited. You know, in a two player game, there's one worker placement slot for that. And if you don't have a winter visitor that allows you to make wine you're kind of stuck if someone gets to it before you exactly. And it's frustrating, which is also why, like, I think that mechanically, it makes sense for the grapes to age, as well as the wines like yeah, that doesn't make sense thematically, but mechanically, well, at least you're still like gaining value from the grapes that are stuck on your crash pad because you weren't able

Jake: 26:00

to make wine. They're not just sitting there.

Rachel: 26:03

Yeah. So I think what I'm getting around to saying is that I feel like there's a lot of mechanics and like components in this game that do a good job of like balancing it all out and taking things that would normally be big frustrations, or maybe even you know something that would deter you from playing the game, and makes it a little easier to handle.

Jake: 26:25

Yeah, I agree. I like this game. I feel like this game is pretty complicated. According to BoardGameGeek, this game was only rated at a 2.8. But I totally disagree with that. I think this game is heavier than that.

Rachel: 26:37

I don't know. I don't I don't agree.

Jake: 26:39

I maybe it's a game. I can't wrap my head around. Maybe this is our new aquatic a game that I just can't win for some reason.

Rachel: 26:48

Maybe. I mean, I don't know. Were you drinking too much wine while you were playing?

Jake: 26:52

No, I had like literally one glass.

Rachel: 26:55

Hmm, I don't know. But I think we'll come back to that in our rating section. We're gonna talk about the expansions.

Jake: 27:02

Yeah, let's talk about those expansions. There are several. So there's an our Bora culture expansion from 2013. This adds a matte expansion for new crop, it adds apple trees, tomato vines, and olive trees. It also adds a cheese aging cave, which allows you to make an aged cheese. There's also you each get one more grande worker, which is the worker that allows you to go in a spot that is already full. There's also morale tokens and a morale system for each player. I don't think this game needs that I'll be honest, I feel like that's too much. Maybe the morale now I don't need another thing to juggle.

Rachel: 27:46

I can take it or leave it. But I actually really like the idea of like having all these other things that you're growing and you're like a charcuterie board. I

Jake: 27:54

like that. You're growing everything charcuterie board. Now there is no bacon, or ham on salami or Cerrito or for sure, though, but I want it there is the Tuscany expansion. This was released in 2014. The essential edition that this one does have an essential edition was released in 2016. This adds a new board for all four seasons, instead of just the two standard that you're playing in. This adds structure cards that players can build to supplement existing structure figures. This adds some special workers with special abilities that you can actually, as a player, have your meeples train and learn. That's pretty interesting

Rachel: 28:38

to kind of like specialized in something this guy specializes in making one maybe and he does it more effectively, or

Jake: 28:43

I believe it's those kinds of actions that specializes in a specific worker placement slot. So you'll probably get bonuses associated with that.

Rachel: 28:53

Oh, I have heard that this game is not worth playing without the Tuscany expansion. So that's interesting. Obviously, we haven't played it yet. I can kind of see that. I can see how it feels looks like half a game with there really only being actions and things that you're doing in summer in winter. So I'm very interested in trying the Tuscany expansion. The next

Jake: 29:17

expansion is the Morris visitors. This is just a set of 40 new visitor cards that you can add into any of the previous expansions. They released another visitors expansion visits from the Rhine Valley. This is a stack of ad visitor cards and these are focused less on victory points and more on the actual wine business. These cards have to be played alone and cannot be used with any of the previous sets of visitor cards. Okay, and finally, the last expansion that has been created is the viticulture world. This is a cooperative expansion. In this players have six years to meet two specific wind conditions depending on what region they They're growing their wines in. This is not currently out yet. It is, according to the stone Meyer website, going to be released in early June and will ship in mid June of this year. I personally am excited for it. I like cooperative games. Rachel hates them. As you all know. I don't hate cooperative games. She just hates cooperating with me.

Rachel: 30:21

I'm very excited to check out this version of viniculture like playing as a cooperative game. That sounds very fun and interesting to me.

Jake: 30:31

Okay, so those are the available expansions and the upcoming expansion. It was actually just announced a couple weeks ago from what I understand.

Rachel: 30:40

Yeah, maybe maybe a month or two ago.

Jake: 30:43

But anyway, I don't what is time?

Rachel: 30:46

True. Okay, so let's go over the Board Game Geek ratings really quick. So the base game is rated at 8.05 with 11 and a half 1000 reviews. That solid? I mean, we already talked about how this is on the hotness list at what 2027 37 So not surprised there. That seems you know, fair and everything as expected for a stone Meyer game, the arboriculture game is rated at 7.45 with only 214 reviews. So that makes me think that like this was a limited edition thing. Maybe

Jake: 31:28

I believe it was the Kickstarter exclusive.

Rachel: 31:32

Okay. So that makes sense. It's not available for purchase anymore. Right?

Jake: 31:38

It is not. And it's not included in any of the essential editions either.

Rachel: 31:42

Yeah. So I mean, that's unfortunate, I would have liked to try it. But

Jake: 31:48

Well, again, if you want to try it, it is available for print and play. But it is something that you have to print.

Rachel: 31:55

The Tuscany expansion is rated at 8.6 with 7500 reviews that again, matches my expectations, according to what people are telling me that you basically need the Tuscany expansion to really have fun with this game. I don't know I'm having fun with it with just the base game. But like it needs it to feel complete, I guess more as visitors has 8.02 out of 2000 reviews. So I don't know when it's just a cards expansion. I don't I don't look into that too deeply. I don't know how to rate Yeah, things that are just cards, I don't know, visit from the Rhine is 8.28 at 1600 reviews. And then I'm a little surprised to see this the World expansion so far is rated at 6.43. But there's only 59 reviews. So that's like review copies that have been sent out to people or, you know, other like board game people who were somehow able to play it and get a hold of it early before it's actually released. So I would take that rating with a really big grain of salt, because it's possible that the game has changed since then. Yeah. And you don't know the circumstances of like, who was playing that? And when you don't know. So anyway, that's the board game game review ratings. Alright, we're gonna talk about our rating section now. So first, we talked about easy versus difficult. This is basically how easy is the game to pick up and learn how well is rulebook written? How easy is it to like, be a new player and play this game? Personally, I think it's pretty easy. I find that the stone Meyer games in general are like, the rules are written really well. The rulebook is like, thorough and quality and everything is where I'd expect it to be. And it makes sense and it flows. It's not overwhelming to read the rules, like some other rule books that I've looked at recently.

Jake: 34:03

You love route.

Rachel: 34:04

That's not even what I was talking about. I'm talking about arc Nova.

Jake: 34:09

But it's applicable. Yeah, for sure. It is very applicable.

Rachel: 34:15

I give this like a three. I want to say maybe a four. I'll give this a four.

Jake: 34:20

Yeah, four because there's a lot. There's a lot of reading, even if you don't read the rulebook, and somebody explains it to you. You do have to read a lot of worker placement actions and slots. There's a lot to read and to remember.

Rachel: 34:33

I guess,

Jake: 34:34

I mean, there's a lot of worker placement slots.

Rachel: 34:37

I guess. I mean.

Jake: 34:40

Okay, you disagree.

Rachel: 34:42

It's not as many as abomination. So I don't know. Like.

Jake: 34:46

It's about the same.

Rachel: 34:48

Okay, I don't know something with this game clicks with me. It just makes sense.

Jake: 34:54

Well, we'll see what we

Rachel: 34:57

will see tomorrow with our rematch

Jake: 34:59

Yeah exactly we'll see tomorrow.

Rachel: 35:01

Yeah. All right, you give it a rating? Four? Is that what you said?

Jake: 35:04

Yeah, I'm gonna say four. Our next rating is simple versus complex. And if you're confused about what that means the example we like to use this chess, chess is very easy in the sense that there are very few rules Each piece has a specific movie can make. And that's it. So it's easy in that sense, but it's very complex, because it allows for very many different strategies to be applied to the game to use the mechanics to win. So I think that this game is pretty complex in the sense that there are a lot of different ways to get victory points. So those visitor cards, a lot of them, at least in the essential version that we have, a lot of them are focused on altering your victory point for a either gain or loss. And you can use those a lot to gain victory points, because you can usually pair them with actions. For example, the winter visitor that I'm thinking of that I had in my hand, the other day was discard two other visitor cards and gained two victory points, one of the other ones I had in my hand was age two wines by two value, even if you don't have the appropriate wine cellar for it, you can still change it, or you can discard your most valuable wine to get three victory points. So there's a lot of different ways that you can get victory points in this game, without even using your wine necessarily, or selling wine to fill orders. So I think that there's a lot of different strategy involved, especially with the fact that you have this grande worker that allows you to take an action guaranteed each year, you will get one action that you want, regardless of whether or not it's full. So I think it's pretty complex, and I'm gonna give it a six or seven.

Rachel: 36:44

Okay, I definitely agree that it is complex in terms of the level of strategy that you could bring to the game, there's a lot of different strategies you can go about. And I think you hit the nail on the head, Jake, the you know, the use of victory points, is actually really interesting, because in some cases, you are allowed to spend victory points lose victory points in order to gain something else. And so that adds a whole new dynamic to the game where you have to do this kind of cost benefit analysis of am I willing to sacrifice some of these victory points right now, in order to gain you know, this more immediate benefit that I can use for something, and then, you know, assuming that I'm going to be able to use that to make up those victory points again later, and catch back up. And the first game that we played, that was one of the things that I did almost immediately, in the very first year, I want to say is, I lost three victory points. So I was actually negative and gained like nine lira or something like that, it was really helpful at the beginning of the game to be able to get that amount of cash. And I was able to make it up. I mean, like I said, that game, we didn't play all the way through to the end, but I was in the lead by the time we decided to call it quits. So there is a very interesting dynamic around that. And I agree about the Grande worker as well, you know, their strategy in kind of deciding when and where to use that grande worker, because you only have one of them. So what's most important for you to get done? And what are some of the things that you might be willing to wait until next year to do? You know, and that all kind of ties in with also the order placement of your rooster in spring, you know, so there is a slot, you know, the number one slot is just that you go first and you don't get any other rewards, every other slot on there gives you something, whether it be a vine and order card, gold, or even a temporary worker for the whole year if you decide to go last, so that brings strategy to it as well. I think I'm gonna agree with you. Even though we don't think that this is like a difficult game to play or like that there's too much going on for me to like keep track of it is decently complex because of all these different elements. So I think I'm gonna give it I'm gonna give it a six for the base game, and I assumed that I would go up higher for like the Tuscany expansion because it adds other things.

Jake: 39:30

Okay, that's fair.

Rachel: 39:32

Our last reading is wrote versus random. So this is what elements of randomness are introduced in the game. Usually that's like dice rolling and stuff. There's no dice in this game. But we do have a bunch of shuffled cards in the forms of the vines and the visitors and the orders. But other than that, I don't know the Mamas and the Papas are shuffled and randomized. Yeah.

Jake: 39:56

I don't know. I don't mean it's a Euro game.

Rachel: 39:59

It is it really is. It's not designed to be random? And I don't know, in my opinion, like, I think it might be becoming a Euro gamer. Little like, I like that. It's designed for it to be focused on like my strategy and not necessarily some of this randomness. Although Jake was claiming earlier that I got really lucky with the the medium cellar. So are you thinking that maybe I wouldn't be able to beat you? And if I didn't get lucky with

Jake: 40:30

I'm thinking if we started on equal footing, I think I may have beaten you. Okay, because I was ahead for quite a while until I ran out of cash. Sure, do anything.

Rachel: 40:41

I mean, maybe we can test that strategy. Maybe we could test that theory.

Jake: 40:46

Okay. I also get to go first every year.

Rachel: 40:48

No. No, see, now that's not equal footing, is

Jake: 40:54

it? No, it's equal footing. Okay, because you won two games. And now I need to win one. So

Rachel: 40:59

no, no. False. Have you ever, ever let me win a game?

Jake: 41:06

Maybe? No. Maybe? You don't know. All right.

Rachel: 41:10

So it's time to answer the question, Jake.

Jake: 41:13

No, really? No, I don't want to mow the lawn tomorrow.

Rachel: 41:17

Would you rather play this game than attempting to mow that neglected backyard of yours? In the ever increasing case, only to find out that both your electric mower batteries are only lasting like seven minutes before dying? And they both take an hour and a half to charge? And so it's gonna take you like, probably nine different times of going outside with a battery to actually mow the lawn?

Jake: 41:44

Well, I haven't a mower, so I won't have that problem. It's true. But I would much rather play this game than that. Because I hate mowing the lawn is horrible. It's like one of my least favorite chores in the world.

Rachel: 41:59

Okay, I don't mind it so much. I don't know what do you have a mower that actually works? Like? Without all those hassles? I actually don't mind it that much. When you do it, okay, well, maybe you should pick up the dog poop from now on,

Jake: 42:14

then. Maybe I will. Okay. Anyway,

Rachel: 42:18

that's viticulture. Thank you guys so much for listening. I would like to remind you, again, that we are giving away this game. Please go and check out our Facebook page where we have a giveaway with all kinds of different ways to enter. And, you know, good luck. I hope somebody who's like really needing this game wins

Jake: 42:41

it. And to clarify, we're not giving away our copy, the one you get will be brand new, it will be yes. Yeah, that's we're not just gonna give you a used copy of a game.

Rachel: 42:51

I mean, even if we did, it's only been played twice. But no, I like this game enough to keep it I'm not giving that to anyone.

Jake: 42:58

Now, if anybody wants a copy of paleo, just

Rachel: 43:04

all right, hit us up on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at soul board podcast. That's S O Bo AR D podcast. We'd love to hear about any fun house rules that you have or experiences playing this game. Even if it's just to tell me get as good as imagine. You'll also be able to find pictures and short stories of other games that we've been playing recently and interact with us about all things tabletop gaming. If you don't feel like doing it on social media, you can email us at We are so bored. That's W E ar e s o b oard@gmail.com. Make sure you subscribe wherever you're listening so that you get notified of new episodes when they come out. If you're listening on a network that has ratings like Spotify and Wink, wink, give us a rating, you know and, and Apple podcast, give us a rating. Because it takes two seconds. It really really helps us out. We're trying really hard to grow this podcast and like, get a larger audience. And you know, I've heard feedback from people that you guys really enjoy it. So share the love by giving us a rating writing us a review or even telling a friend that is amazing.

Jake: 44:21

Yeah, that would be awesome. We also want to give shout outs to the people who knew we were reviewing viticulture based on the picture we posted last week. So congrats to GM Paulo Brunetti, Rick Monson. Chris lamb. Barger, Sawyer, Wayne, Alexander, and go ninja on Twitter, and hidden gems podcast on Instagram. Awesome job, guys. Thanks for participating.

Rachel: 44:47

We also want to thank our artists, Mitchell Mims. He designed our logo and some of the other art that you see around he is accepting commissions so you can go and check him out on Instagram. I'm at m i m SCOSARA on Instagram, or on his website, M i c h e l m i m s.ca rd.co. I actually really love his work. So check him up.

Jake: 45:16

Once again we are streaming on Twitch. At so bored podcast. We're going to be streaming this game tomorrow at I don't know.

Rachel: 45:26

Check Instagram. I'm not sure what time yet.

Jake: 45:29

I'm also streaming on Twitch. It's mostly video games, but we have a good time. Come check me out at Naughty Dog 541. That's NAU gh t y d OC. 541. Heads Up is a little less than family friendly. So be prepared for that. True it is marked explicit though. I do say some swears because of cool like that. But that's it. Thank you all for listening so much and we will talk to you soon. Bye!